1 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,530 Herald: As you all know, this year we didn't have 2 00:00:11,530 --> 00:00:15,750 any summer dream, but more of a summer nightmare and for the first time 3 00:00:15,750 --> 00:00:19,719 in 50 years of the federal republic of Gemany journalists were impeached 4 00:00:19,719 --> 00:00:24,060 for "Landesverrat" (Treason of the nation). It lies back now a few months 5 00:00:24,060 --> 00:00:27,349 and we want to use this opportunity now, to reflect a bit about 6 00:00:27,349 --> 00:00:31,739 what actually happened, once recall the events 7 00:00:31,739 --> 00:00:35,980 and shine light on the back story, but also look at 8 00:00:35,980 --> 00:00:38,930 what happened since then, what the consequences are. 9 00:00:38,930 --> 00:00:44,300 And to do that, please give with me a warm welcome to the founder 10 00:00:44,300 --> 00:00:48,730 and publisher of "Netzpolitik" and our favourite "Landesverräter" (Nation traitor) Markus Beckedahl. 11 00:00:48,730 --> 00:00:55,730 *applaus* 12 00:01:01,870 --> 00:01:05,250 Herald: And... 13 00:01:05,250 --> 00:01:09,190 For all our international guests, if you want to listen to the talk in English 14 00:01:09,190 --> 00:01:12,170 that is totally possible. Please tone into our wonderful 15 00:01:12,170 --> 00:01:16,109 translation at 80 11. Thank you! 16 00:01:16,689 --> 00:01:19,710 Markus: Hello, good morning! 17 00:01:19,710 --> 00:01:26,710 *laughing**applause* 18 00:01:27,890 --> 00:01:32,359 But when you're clapping all the time, I will never finish with my 72 slides. 19 00:01:32,359 --> 00:01:39,360 So... *applause* 20 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,909 Andre can be here unfortunately, he has to lie in the sun, 21 00:01:43,909 --> 00:01:45,780 I mean in the real sun. 22 00:01:45,780 --> 00:01:48,780 *applause* 23 00:01:48,780 --> 00:01:55,139 On the camp, just after the case against us was dropped we have 24 00:01:55,139 --> 00:02:00,719 held a talk, so: The story about all of this investigations 25 00:02:00,719 --> 00:02:04,319 I will hold very briefly. I will more focus on what the findings are, 26 00:02:04,319 --> 00:02:08,408 what we have learned, what would have to change in the laws to avoid 27 00:02:08,408 --> 00:02:12,349 such investigations in the future. Who is still interested in the background story, 28 00:02:12,349 --> 00:02:16,109 as I said, the talks from the camp are online. 29 00:02:16,109 --> 00:02:18,870 Yes, I believe you can download them free of charge. 30 00:02:18,870 --> 00:02:21,560 The story started over a year earlier. 31 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,490 Last year we celebrated the 10th anniversary 32 00:02:24,490 --> 00:02:29,210 and adequately for our 10th anniversary, we received news, that the chancellery 33 00:02:29,210 --> 00:02:32,959 had threatened the members of the NSA-investigation commission in the Bundestag 34 00:02:32,959 --> 00:02:39,220 to press penal charges, because among others in our blog documents had been posted 35 00:02:39,220 --> 00:02:46,859 which were distributed in the context of the investigation commission. 36 00:02:46,859 --> 00:02:51,670 At that time the charges were not pursued. There are rumours, 37 00:02:51,670 --> 00:02:54,469 that Merkel was against it. She was afraid, 38 00:02:54,469 --> 00:02:57,909 that that somehow was bad PR to prosecute the press. 39 00:02:57,909 --> 00:03:01,340 We felt honoured and a bit motivated 40 00:03:01,340 --> 00:03:05,049 to just continue. 41 00:03:05,049 --> 00:03:09,859 In this February we published parts of the state budge documents, 42 00:03:09,859 --> 00:03:13,409 which showed, that the "Verfassungsschutz" (German secret service) was planning 43 00:03:13,409 --> 00:03:18,930 massive analysis of internet contents just like that. 44 00:03:18,930 --> 00:03:24,219 That was interesting, because two year after the start of the Snowden-Leaks 45 00:03:24,219 --> 00:03:29,069 the answer of the government was to increase the budget 46 00:03:29,069 --> 00:03:32,199 and the authority of the secret services to monitor the internet. 47 00:03:32,199 --> 00:03:35,880 We thought, that should better be discussed, before that is just implemented that way. 48 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:40,799 But a discussion was actually just possible, if all the document were public, 49 00:03:40,799 --> 00:03:44,380 which were confidential to that point. 50 00:03:44,380 --> 00:03:46,680 To us, someone had leaked them. We had a bit space on our servers, 51 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,690 so we published them, sadly we did not get the huge debate in civil society, 52 00:03:50,690 --> 00:03:53,330 we wanted. To put it in other word: It just did not 53 00:03:53,330 --> 00:03:56,979 interest people that much. But it is our philosophy 54 00:03:56,979 --> 00:04:01,540 documents we have not just to quote, but also 55 00:04:01,540 --> 00:04:06,449 if possible, openly provided for all our readers. 56 00:04:06,449 --> 00:04:10,079 We are used to the Internet, we are used to link to the sources. 57 00:04:10,079 --> 00:04:14,179 *applaus* 58 00:04:14,179 --> 00:04:19,350 and we are used, that others should also question our work. 59 00:04:19,350 --> 00:04:24,619 We do not believe, that we are the experts for everything, 60 00:04:24,619 --> 00:04:27,700 and we believe also, that among our readers are many experts, 61 00:04:27,700 --> 00:04:31,699 who can help us, to gain more perspectives on documents from all angles 62 00:04:31,699 --> 00:04:34,210 and for that we all need the originals. 63 00:04:34,210 --> 00:04:39,880 And therefore we upload them to the net, of course on a case by case basis, 64 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,370 if we do not endanger anyone by that. 65 00:04:43,370 --> 00:04:45,850 But, back to the start of this year: 66 00:04:45,850 --> 00:04:48,100 In this April we received another state budget plan, 67 00:04:48,100 --> 00:04:49,470 which we of course published too. 68 00:04:49,470 --> 00:04:52,160 Unfortunately this one did really interest none, 69 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:57,650 'cause 9:05 am it was online, 9:15 the minister of justice informed, 70 00:04:57,650 --> 00:05:00,560 that he was going to reimplement the "Vorratsdatenspeicherung" (Mass surveillance measures) now, 71 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,299 so our issue just die on that spot. We found it was a pity, 72 00:05:04,299 --> 00:05:08,220 'cause we really wanted to talk about: What is the Verfassungsschutz doing there? 73 00:05:08,220 --> 00:05:10,500 Is this constitutional at all, what they are doing? 74 00:05:10,500 --> 00:05:14,089 Shouldn't we as society not decide first, 75 00:05:14,089 --> 00:05:15,699 if we approve the measures or not? 76 00:05:15,699 --> 00:05:18,789 And, shouldn't maybe the supreme court rule first about it, 77 00:05:18,789 --> 00:05:21,780 if they are even allowed to do so or not? 78 00:05:21,780 --> 00:05:24,330 To put this all in context, what we published there: 79 00:05:24,330 --> 00:05:28,240 state budget, some say, that is somehow comparable with 80 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,430 simply just a cost draft. 81 00:05:31,430 --> 00:05:35,440 After the "Landesverrat" investigation ZEIT ONLINE (news) has published another 82 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:40,500 piece of the puzzle, namely internal documents of the "Verfassungsschutz" 83 00:05:40,500 --> 00:05:46,000 about XKeyscore. We have published, so to say, the budget planes, 84 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:50,549 which documented the implementation of this XKeyscore Software, 85 00:05:50,549 --> 00:05:55,409 and another piece of the puzzle came from Kai Biermann and Yassin Musharbash, 86 00:05:55,409 --> 00:06:00,169 I think I'm constantly pronouncing their names wrong. Sorry. 87 00:06:00,169 --> 00:06:08,910 On the 4th of July we hard from a radio station, that a internet service 88 00:06:08,910 --> 00:06:14,349 had published two articles in February and April, 89 00:06:14,349 --> 00:06:19,139 for what they were indicted by the president of the Verfassungsschutz. 90 00:06:19,139 --> 00:06:24,070 It's no fun fact that, one day in advance the Verfassungsschutz law 91 00:06:24,070 --> 00:06:27,270 with more competences for the Verfassungsschutz had passed the parliament. 92 00:06:27,270 --> 00:06:29,740 Possibly there is a correlation, that this story by 93 00:06:29,740 --> 00:06:34,090 such a Verfassungsschutz friendly "Deutschlandfunk" journalist 94 00:06:34,090 --> 00:06:36,750 was placed one day after and not before. 95 00:06:36,750 --> 00:06:40,510 Probably the "Landesverrat" investigations, media coverage 96 00:06:40,510 --> 00:06:44,880 could have led to more people actually having a look at the Verfassungsschutz law, 97 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,729 but it did not happen this way. 98 00:06:46,729 --> 00:06:49,120 We were at first a bit surprised, so we noticed first, 99 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,040 that WE are this internet service apparently, then we thought: 100 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,400 Does this happen often, that such a accusation is filed? 101 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,539 We then called the union for journalists and so on, 102 00:06:59,539 --> 00:07:02,370 to ask about it. We thought they might know more about this stuff. But they were like: 103 00:07:02,370 --> 00:07:05,740 "Well, no idea, happened last time in the 90s or something?" 104 00:07:05,740 --> 00:07:08,989 So we thought... hmmm... strange somehow. So we called on Monday 105 00:07:08,989 --> 00:07:12,420 the Verfassungsschutz and the General Attorney, 106 00:07:12,420 --> 00:07:14,950 to ask about it. They did not want to tell us anything obviously, 107 00:07:14,950 --> 00:07:20,769 and then we blogged about it and waited for it. We knew according to 108 00:07:20,769 --> 00:07:24,489 this article in the Deutschlandfunk it had to do with betraying official secrets. 109 00:07:24,489 --> 00:07:28,819 There is a ruling of the supreme court, to phrase it that way, is would be bad 110 00:07:28,819 --> 00:07:33,560 for our sources, but we as individuals could still get out of this. 111 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:41,400 And then on the 30th of July, we received a letter, that at least throw over our 112 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,190 daily life in the editorial office a bit. 113 00:07:44,190 --> 00:07:48,639 The general attorney notified us, that investigations concerning "Landesverrat" 114 00:07:48,639 --> 00:07:53,580 against Andre, against our source and me were being conduced and 115 00:07:53,580 --> 00:07:56,259 it already started in May. 116 00:07:56,259 --> 00:07:57,590 So we thought: Well. 117 00:07:57,590 --> 00:08:04,589 *Laughing**applause* 118 00:08:07,149 --> 00:08:08,850 So we then blogged it. 119 00:08:08,850 --> 00:08:11,179 Then we looked up, what does "Landesverrat" actually mean anyway? 120 00:08:11,179 --> 00:08:15,659 *Laughing* 121 00:08:15,659 --> 00:08:18,829 Our lawyers said like: "So, there is something curious going on! 122 00:08:18,829 --> 00:08:23,639 The law about it states: There must be the intention of harming the federal republic." 123 00:08:23,639 --> 00:08:27,799 and we actually wanted a better federal republic, 124 00:08:27,799 --> 00:08:31,019 I mean, we wanted a federal republic, where the basic right we have 125 00:08:31,019 --> 00:08:36,659 were applied! That's the opposite of, what Landesverrat (Treason against the nation) is! 126 00:08:36,659 --> 00:08:39,240 *heavy applause* 127 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:44,250 And he thought: "Well, if the law is the way it is. We will fight through this in the worst case." 128 00:08:44,250 --> 00:08:47,229 Then we informed ourselfs again: How did "Landesverrat" actually come about? 129 00:08:47,229 --> 00:08:49,290 I mean, one only knew the kind of thing from the Spiegel scandal, 130 00:08:49,290 --> 00:08:52,870 so from history books, it went even further. Erich Kästner and so on, 131 00:08:52,870 --> 00:08:58,570 so a very explosive... well, symbolic phrase! 132 00:08:58,570 --> 00:09:02,930 The short version was: Thursday we received the letter, uploaded it and so on. 133 00:09:02,930 --> 00:09:05,760 Sunday all of the sudden we were in the centre of a small state crisis. 134 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,400 Tuesday the General Attorney resigns. 135 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,690 The Monday after, everything was buried very quickly. 136 00:09:11,690 --> 00:09:16,260 But: Now starts, what all did happened or 137 00:09:16,260 --> 00:09:18,370 how we evaluated the whole thing. 138 00:09:18,370 --> 00:09:22,010 To start with we had a lot of luck. 139 00:09:22,010 --> 00:09:25,500 So we were lucky, that they charged us for "Landesverrat", 140 00:09:25,500 --> 00:09:31,170 so such a symbolic, which instantly generates this connection to 141 00:09:31,170 --> 00:09:36,760 Franz Josef Strauß and the Spiegel Scandal in the heads of many people. 142 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:41,160 It hadn't been quite as practical, if they didn't charge us with §94 StGB "Landesverrat" 143 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:45,420 but with §95 "Offenbarung von Staatsgeheimnissen" (revealing of official secrets), 144 00:09:45,420 --> 00:09:48,440 so let alone the Hashtag #offenbarungvonstaatsgeheimnissen would've 145 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,549 been to long. *laughing* 146 00:09:51,549 --> 00:09:57,090 We were even lucky, that the INFORMED us via mail. 147 00:09:57,090 --> 00:10:01,220 As far as we can reconstruct it, it looks a lot like, 148 00:10:01,220 --> 00:10:05,420 that the General Attorney ordered an external report by a professor close to the BND, 149 00:10:05,420 --> 00:10:09,510 who should affirm the view of the Verfassungsschutz, 150 00:10:09,510 --> 00:10:12,620 that we published official secrets, 151 00:10:12,620 --> 00:10:15,479 and if it had turned out that way..., and this BND-professor told the 152 00:10:15,479 --> 00:10:18,480 General Attorney, that he unfortunately hadn't finished yet and 153 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:20,969 had to go on vacation. But if he had finished, 154 00:10:20,969 --> 00:10:23,980 he would probably come to that conclusion and then through that 155 00:10:23,980 --> 00:10:26,080 we only would have known from a police raid, 156 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,670 that there is something going on in this direction. 157 00:10:28,670 --> 00:10:33,720 Therefore we took the message from that just to be prepare for that. 158 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:38,160 We didn't think then, that we would in Germany, in a constitutional democracy, 159 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:42,800 have to be afraid of raid at home and the office 160 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,510 due to our work. 161 00:10:46,510 --> 00:10:48,809 Now we know that, now we are prepared, 162 00:10:48,809 --> 00:10:50,640 if it someday comes to that. 163 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:55,450 Then we were lucky: David vs Goliath, I mean, 164 00:10:55,450 --> 00:10:59,510 Star Wars was just released. Mr. Maaßen (president of the Verfassungsschutz) would 165 00:10:59,510 --> 00:11:00,890 be the perfect Emperor. *laughing* 166 00:11:00,890 --> 00:11:03,260 We are the rebels, so besides David- Goliath 167 00:11:03,260 --> 00:11:05,660 Star Wars is also quite fitting. 168 00:11:05,660 --> 00:11:09,089 In any case, this huge symbolic, We were just lucky. 169 00:11:09,089 --> 00:11:12,049 We had such a stress test before, 6 years ago. 170 00:11:12,049 --> 00:11:16,350 That time we published internal documents of the "Deutsche Bahn" (German railway). 171 00:11:16,350 --> 00:11:19,799 We could test a bit the mechanics of the new public 172 00:11:19,799 --> 00:11:25,090 in such a David-Goliath situation, Streisand-effect and so on, 173 00:11:25,090 --> 00:11:29,519 and now we could play the same thing in big. 174 00:11:29,519 --> 00:11:33,089 And most importantly the luck we had was, 175 00:11:33,089 --> 00:11:35,190 that this was happening in the "Sommerloch", 176 00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:38,480 So, two weeks before we would have been forgotten about due to the Greek crisis, 177 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,809 two weeks due later the refugees situation, but exactly at that time 178 00:11:41,809 --> 00:11:45,679 when we received this letter, just nothing else happened at all. 179 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,919 Totally great, Thanks! 180 00:11:48,919 --> 00:11:53,949 *laughing**applause* 181 00:11:53,949 --> 00:11:57,790 So but first off we had to prove that we are good citizens, 182 00:11:57,790 --> 00:12:00,999 at the same time, which was the funniest thing, 183 00:12:00,999 --> 00:12:07,029 the government or the "Deutsche Bank" as standard initiative of the BDI 184 00:12:07,029 --> 00:12:10,039 together with the President send us also such a certificate, 185 00:12:10,039 --> 00:12:12,920 'cause we were honoured within the "Deutschland- Land der Ideen"(Germany land of ideas) campaign. 186 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,330 We didn't know at that point what to do with this honouring, 187 00:12:16,330 --> 00:12:17,540 should we even make it public? 188 00:12:17,540 --> 00:12:20,910 Then we thought: How useful, that shows this weird picture 189 00:12:20,910 --> 00:12:24,560 and shows instantly somehow how schizophrenic this is: 190 00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:28,519 Parts of the government pay us tribute, while the other part, well does the same, 191 00:12:28,519 --> 00:12:30,100 but doesn't intended it that way. 192 00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:32,840 *laughing* 193 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:39,650 Well, in any case something happens, that we could have known, 194 00:12:39,650 --> 00:12:44,489 but we didn't: The Admin was on vacation and the blog was gone. 195 00:12:44,489 --> 00:12:47,520 We then needed a mirror page, where at least the information 196 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,350 could still be found. 197 00:12:50,350 --> 00:12:52,779 Then something happen, which I never experienced before: 198 00:12:52,779 --> 00:12:56,339 I couldn't use Twitter any more, for example, 'cause there were to many 199 00:12:56,339 --> 00:12:59,660 informations with our Hashtag and so on, 200 00:12:59,660 --> 00:13:01,889 my Browser shut down all the time, I had to shut down for 201 00:13:01,889 --> 00:13:05,589 a few hours, but there was a huge crowd declaring solidarity, 202 00:13:05,589 --> 00:13:11,370 incountable Supertweets, eg. here from @NeinQuarterly and also many other things, 203 00:13:11,370 --> 00:13:16,230 Links to our donation site, because we had obviously problems, if we had to fight 204 00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:19,199 this, then we would have needed a lot of money, 205 00:13:19,199 --> 00:13:24,790 for the lawyers alone and we were complete underfunded at that time. 206 00:13:24,790 --> 00:13:28,780 In any case, then we had this funny situation, that 207 00:13:28,780 --> 00:13:31,910 all of the sudden even our IBAN-number became a trending topic. 208 00:13:31,910 --> 00:13:35,460 Our bank was proud to. *laughing* 209 00:13:35,460 --> 00:13:40,170 And at the same time to illustrate the summer void of news, that was one of 210 00:13:40,170 --> 00:13:43,520 several days "tagesschau.de", where you got the impression that there was nothing else; 211 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,920 Probably nothing else was happening at that time, I haven't hear of anything, 212 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:50,349 but here you also don't see anything. 213 00:13:50,349 --> 00:13:54,509 Something else: Very nice was also the solidarity of the ZDF heute-jornal. 214 00:13:54,509 --> 00:13:59,560 They had written netzpolitik.org instead of heute.de 215 00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:06,559 *laughing**big applause* 216 00:14:07,319 --> 00:14:12,229 Well, and the server was down again. *laughing* 217 00:14:12,229 --> 00:14:14,630 Now we have a new one. *laughing* 218 00:14:14,630 --> 00:14:18,730 So, in case that happens again, we could use a bit more capacity. 219 00:14:18,730 --> 00:14:20,670 Well, so we had to present ourselfs also somehow 220 00:14:20,670 --> 00:14:27,240 as even better citizens. *laughing**applause* 221 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:33,900 And then it was okay, I mean the most of the press had our back. 222 00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:41,810 We had hoped so, but we did not expect this huge solidarity at all. 223 00:14:41,810 --> 00:14:44,639 That was really great for sure, to know they have your back 224 00:14:44,639 --> 00:14:47,880 and more than anything it's great, when all the things 225 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,260 you normally watch yourself are reporting about you, 226 00:14:50,260 --> 00:14:54,269 such as extra3, heute-show and so on. (comedy news shows) The only sad thing was, 227 00:14:54,269 --> 00:14:57,509 that we were so deep in the middle of summer, that they did not had any TV-episodes, 228 00:14:57,509 --> 00:14:59,659 but they had to do it online. 229 00:14:59,659 --> 00:15:04,360 Well, and then there was a little uprising of the CDU-members of parliament, who did 230 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,740 not understand why so many people showed their solidarity to us. 231 00:15:06,740 --> 00:15:10,869 Jens Koeppen on the upper left is by the way the the head of the commission for 232 00:15:10,869 --> 00:15:13,630 digital agenda in the Bundestag. (Parliament) 233 00:15:13,630 --> 00:15:17,579 That also took just one day. The important people in the CDU, 234 00:15:17,579 --> 00:15:20,900 had their colleges under control again right the next day, 235 00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:24,399 and were like: "That's a game we can't win!" 236 00:15:24,399 --> 00:15:29,489 It was also very funny, Mr. Bosbach declared immediately 1,5 days later: 237 00:15:29,489 --> 00:15:31,990 "However inexplicable the initiation of the investigation 238 00:15:31,990 --> 00:15:35,770 against the blog "netzpolitik.org" was for actual, legal reasons..." 239 00:15:35,770 --> 00:15:38,840 Then he was of course attacking the social democrates. 240 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:43,750 But this was at least for us the signal: Okay, the government is on the retreat. 241 00:15:43,750 --> 00:15:47,220 Not everyone did get the hint: 242 00:15:47,220 --> 00:15:51,150 Hans-Peter Uhl thought still, that now ISIS could draw from 243 00:15:51,150 --> 00:15:56,939 budget plans conclusions how the Verfassungsschutz was organised. 244 00:15:56,939 --> 00:16:01,509 Well, Hans-Peter Uhl has also some other problems, I think. 245 00:16:01,509 --> 00:16:04,950 *laughing* 246 00:16:04,950 --> 00:16:10,240 In any case, this came in quite handy for us. It was summer. We were a few from 247 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,000 our team and a few friends, who wanted absolutely to rally. 248 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,380 We thought first, well, okay a rally there will be coming the few well known people. 249 00:16:15,380 --> 00:16:18,910 Anyway we did a demonstration. 2500 people were there! 250 00:16:18,910 --> 00:16:21,149 *laughing* Also very helpful to 251 00:16:21,149 --> 00:16:25,100 to create the right images. 252 00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:28,269 But we actually thought: after two days it is all over. Heiko Maas the minister 253 00:16:28,269 --> 00:16:30,850 of justice had to cut his vacation short for the first time, 254 00:16:30,850 --> 00:16:33,670 went to the press, like: "Everything under control, keep calm 255 00:16:33,670 --> 00:16:36,729 and carry on!" Some interview request were rejected. 256 00:16:36,729 --> 00:16:42,340 We partied and, well, on the next day we were actually in a state scandal, 257 00:16:42,340 --> 00:16:45,530 which took almost international proportions. 258 00:16:45,530 --> 00:16:48,899 To understand it must be said, that Germany was always 259 00:16:48,899 --> 00:16:52,460 pointing fingers on the international stage, 260 00:16:52,460 --> 00:16:55,330 when ever there was a oppressive regime, 261 00:16:55,330 --> 00:16:58,199 where journalists and bloggers were suppressed somehow. 262 00:16:58,199 --> 00:17:01,029 Well and now there was such a case in Germany, 263 00:17:01,029 --> 00:17:04,429 where journalist were threatened with investigations, 264 00:17:04,429 --> 00:17:10,260 where usually immediately the foreign minister would intervene. 265 00:17:10,260 --> 00:17:13,559 That was somehow funny even for us. We appeared everywhere: 266 00:17:13,559 --> 00:17:18,109 Here from Nepal to Greek, so in all the continents, 267 00:17:18,109 --> 00:17:22,420 almost from all counties we received articles. 268 00:17:22,420 --> 00:17:24,780 We didn't get them all processed, so we were called 269 00:17:24,780 --> 00:17:29,240 every minute for some question from the most bizarre media 270 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,940 an the planet. We were very proud to be in the "Titanic" (Satire magazine), 271 00:17:32,940 --> 00:17:35,360 with this page of "Landesverrateslust" 272 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:40,040 *laughing* (parody of gardening magazine "Landlust") 273 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:45,840 Once "Titanic". Well, the FAZ (frankfurt common newspaper) had a small campaign against us. 274 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:47,840 We thought that was cute, because we thought, we can't lose anything, 275 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,900 when a news paper that is 10 times as big 276 00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:54,420 in one unearthly bad article article after the other tries to explain, 277 00:17:54,420 --> 00:17:56,960 that we actually are the bad guys and not the good ones 278 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:03,260 and then use words like: "The democracy didn't mean anything to 279 00:18:03,260 --> 00:18:07,500 netzpolitik.org or other swarm-like collective intelligent beings anyway, 280 00:18:07,500 --> 00:18:11,490 look at child pornography, or telecommunications data retention, or copyright." 281 00:18:11,490 --> 00:18:19,600 Or the head of FAZ-Feuilleton about some animal, that was in our office, 282 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,090 because it was a gift from Anna from Japan. The "mascot" got half a page 283 00:18:23,090 --> 00:18:26,290 of scribbling, while we just thought: "what mascot???" 284 00:18:26,290 --> 00:18:29,810 We hadn't even noticed it standing there. 285 00:18:29,810 --> 00:18:33,170 Well, in any case that was a very funny thing, but at the same time also 286 00:18:33,170 --> 00:18:37,440 somehow completely bizarre. So the FAZ- politics editors had almost 287 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:42,900 always exactly the opposite opinion 288 00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:46,530 and pointed at us and said: "That are the activists, we are the journalists!" 289 00:18:46,530 --> 00:18:50,530 And tried to denounce therefore our press right privilege. 290 00:18:50,530 --> 00:18:53,500 On the other hand we had thought this through the last years. 291 00:18:53,500 --> 00:18:56,650 We had the official confirmation of the government, the "Bundespressekonferenz" 292 00:18:56,650 --> 00:18:58,950 and Parliament, that we were journalists, because they had given us 293 00:18:58,950 --> 00:19:01,570 IDs as journalists. 294 00:19:01,570 --> 00:19:05,500 Then there was some small subplot: 295 00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:09,460 We had thrown out a team of Russia Today, 296 00:19:09,460 --> 00:19:12,110 due to the fact that they were the only ones, that did not notify us in advance 297 00:19:12,110 --> 00:19:16,510 and all of the sudden entered the office, started to film and we had the principle 298 00:19:16,510 --> 00:19:20,740 -that wasn't even against Russia- but we would not talk to government 299 00:19:20,740 --> 00:19:25,730 controlled media trying to exploit us to somehow relativise the freedom of the 300 00:19:25,730 --> 00:19:28,000 press in the own country. *applause* 301 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,350 So we said we would not talk to media of governments *applause* 302 00:19:32,350 --> 00:19:38,610 of countries that suppress journalists, that threaten journalists with death. 303 00:19:38,610 --> 00:19:40,940 And Russia is one of those. We twittered that. 304 00:19:40,940 --> 00:19:43,930 And then we had suddenly all conspiracy theorists 305 00:19:43,930 --> 00:19:47,600 who were... I have never received so many death threats 306 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,910 before, because somehow I was responsibly for the Ukraine conflict, 307 00:19:50,910 --> 00:19:53,310 because I was 13 years ago in the Green party youth. *laughing* 308 00:19:53,310 --> 00:19:56,900 So I didn't really get it, but political education was 309 00:19:56,900 --> 00:19:59,770 reduced drastically in the last years, I think 310 00:19:59,770 --> 00:20:02,270 we need there a bit more money from the state budget. 311 00:20:02,270 --> 00:20:09,270 *applause* But let's look at the still unsolved puzzle: 312 00:20:09,270 --> 00:20:12,940 We still wonder: why? *laughing* 313 00:20:12,940 --> 00:20:17,450 So, why did the General Attorney start the investigations in the first place, 314 00:20:17,450 --> 00:20:22,060 if everyone could have seen, that there is no will 315 00:20:22,060 --> 00:20:25,350 to harm the republic at all?! 316 00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:28,390 So we can only imagine, that there must have been some political pressure 317 00:20:28,390 --> 00:20:31,660 from the Verfassungsschutz, from the ministry of internal affairs, 318 00:20:31,660 --> 00:20:36,380 maybe from the chancellery. 319 00:20:36,380 --> 00:20:41,510 But the question is also, why would anyone want to be responsible for that? 320 00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:48,810 And also a question was, that later become obvious: 321 00:20:48,810 --> 00:20:53,060 When we heard the news in the "Deutschlandfunk", that because of 322 00:20:53,060 --> 00:20:57,400 revealing official secrets they started investigations against our source, 323 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:03,320 we read the "Cicero"-ruling of 2007 very carefully. 324 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:10,110 2005 there are a house search at "Cicero", this monthly magazine. 325 00:21:10,110 --> 00:21:13,840 It was about revealing of official secrets, some secrets which were disclosed 326 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:18,160 to journalists and they, federal police and Schily, tried back then to 327 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:25,130 find hint on the source using a raid in in the editorial office. 328 00:21:25,130 --> 00:21:29,380 The supreme court ruled 2007: "The revealing of official secrets are no 329 00:21:29,380 --> 00:21:31,330 legitimate reason for a raid." 330 00:21:31,330 --> 00:21:34,070 So they already started our investigation on a higher level, 331 00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:36,600 just to test if they could get away with it. 332 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:40,810 If the supreme court has already forbidden the other thing, 333 00:21:40,810 --> 00:21:44,580 let's just try "Landesverrat" or something. 334 00:21:44,580 --> 00:21:48,170 We would have liked for the case to be continued 335 00:21:48,170 --> 00:21:51,650 to get a ruling, but sadly the investigations were discontinued 336 00:21:51,650 --> 00:21:55,700 very fast, which took the opportunity 337 00:21:55,700 --> 00:21:57,990 to just clarify this by the courts. 338 00:21:57,990 --> 00:22:02,570 Especially to clarify that we had the right to do that at all times. 339 00:22:02,570 --> 00:22:07,040 Then, Hans-Georg Maaßen, our president of the Verfassungsschutz, 340 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:12,240 the emperor and so on, had already declared that on the 4th of May, 341 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:19,660 on the symposium of the Verfassungsschutz, where by the way the Deutschlandfunk journalist 342 00:22:19,660 --> 00:22:26,360 was moderating, which later uncovered the first hint. 343 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:30,650 He was saying back then, that our work or the leaking with the help of journalists 344 00:22:30,650 --> 00:22:37,090 would damage the work of the secret services a great deal. 345 00:22:37,090 --> 00:22:41,070 Furthermore he was talking about some secret information being printed by 346 00:22:41,070 --> 00:22:44,840 the media. Actually, we did never have a printing press, we just 347 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:46,850 put it out in the Internet, but okay... 348 00:22:46,850 --> 00:22:52,150 We did talk this as a reason to release a new sticker series, 349 00:22:52,150 --> 00:22:59,150 you can get some later, at front left. *applause* 350 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:05,350 It was very interesting to, how Maaßen tried to make excuses 351 00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:08,610 all the time, that he was innocent, that he just did his duty and 352 00:23:08,610 --> 00:23:10,480 that someone had to do this. 353 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,020 We now know, that in the last years there were just 354 00:23:14,020 --> 00:23:19,900 just three cases were filed, concerning well, revealing official secrets, 355 00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:24,250 or generally the leaking of documents to journalists from the 356 00:23:24,250 --> 00:23:29,030 secret sevices. Three cases and two of them were us. 357 00:23:29,030 --> 00:23:31,160 *applause* The BND did do something like this yet. 358 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,920 But he was saying: "That is completely normal!!" Tried to suggest, that that was 359 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,570 completely usual procedure and that he by the way had nothing to do 360 00:23:39,570 --> 00:23:43,480 with it, because the charges were pressed against unknown. 361 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:49,060 At some point we got the document, 362 00:23:49,060 --> 00:23:52,970 it looked like this. Which is like right in your face. 363 00:23:52,970 --> 00:23:54,990 This charge against unknown, 364 00:23:54,990 --> 00:23:57,300 even featuring our names. 365 00:23:57,300 --> 00:23:59,080 More than anything the Verfassungsschutz had managed 366 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,030 in two files to write my name two times wrong. 367 00:24:02,030 --> 00:24:03,040 *laughing* 368 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,910 I mean luckily the is not a single person in Germany 369 00:24:06,910 --> 00:24:10,770 that would have such a name, but the problem was, 370 00:24:10,770 --> 00:24:14,390 what would it mean, if your were suspected due to 371 00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:16,600 a wrong name? 372 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,440 Okay, I have to hurry a bit! 373 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,540 Our lawyers later only got censored documents, better to say... 374 00:24:21,540 --> 00:24:24,530 -hu? why did it proceed atomatically?- 375 00:24:24,530 --> 00:24:31,450 ... just censored files, we think that all the time they kept, 376 00:24:31,450 --> 00:24:33,050 two versions parallel. 377 00:24:33,050 --> 00:24:36,330 There are some notices of conversations between General Attorney and 378 00:24:36,330 --> 00:24:38,910 Verfassungsschutz, which were held by phone or email, 379 00:24:38,910 --> 00:24:41,130 but do not appear there. 380 00:24:41,130 --> 00:24:44,300 Our lawyers found that to be very curious, we would have liked to publish 381 00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:47,310 files, but we are not allowed to see them, cause they are ranged as more secret 382 00:24:47,310 --> 00:24:50,590 than the documents, we published, 383 00:24:50,590 --> 00:24:54,240 'cause the Verfassungsschutz.... *applause* 384 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:59,500 The Verfassungsschutz had to explain or had notified the General Attorney in the files 385 00:24:59,500 --> 00:25:02,720 why we had revealed relevant secrets and 386 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,460 well, the assessment of the Verfassungsschutz is more secret than 387 00:25:05,460 --> 00:25:08,660 the documents we published. So incredibly bizzare! 388 00:25:08,660 --> 00:25:17,000 At some point we noticed that, oh, investigations of "Landesverrat" mean, 389 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:23,130 they can legally tap us actually since 2, 3 months. 390 00:25:23,130 --> 00:25:26,840 That was possible, but for a few moments it felt for us like a problem... 391 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,790 -well, hu, what just happened? - 392 00:25:30,790 --> 00:25:34,290 ...like a problem, because we thought, okay now we could have a real 393 00:25:34,290 --> 00:25:36,320 problem, if they bugged everything at our place. 394 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,070 They told us afterwards, that the BKA (police) just had done 395 00:25:38,070 --> 00:25:43,370 low level investigations, well, hu, you can trust them more or less 396 00:25:43,370 --> 00:25:47,250 at least I think. The problem is, how believable is the statement of 397 00:25:47,250 --> 00:25:49,190 the Government, that the Verfassungsschutz 398 00:25:49,190 --> 00:25:51,170 did not watch us? I mean who should've controlled that? 399 00:25:51,170 --> 00:25:55,830 If you want know more about the risks ask (mandatory drug cover statement) the victims of the NSU. 400 00:25:55,830 --> 00:25:58,170 (Neonazi underground killer group) *aplause* 401 00:25:58,170 --> 00:26:03,810 Then we had the problem, that many parts of the government didn't... 402 00:26:03,810 --> 00:26:07,600 have not told the truth in the media. 403 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:12,260 Here is Emily Haber, secretary of security in the ministry of internal affairs, 404 00:26:12,260 --> 00:26:15,140 who said: "Well, yes, the president of the Verfassungsschutz has 405 00:26:15,140 --> 00:26:17,410 stopped at some point" and that was it. 406 00:26:17,410 --> 00:26:19,390 Else we had never known. 407 00:26:19,390 --> 00:26:21,930 Afterwards it became clear, that half of the ministry for internal affairs 408 00:26:21,930 --> 00:26:25,000 was informed about the cases and investigations and so on. 409 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,000 (Minister) Thomas de Maizière of course didn't noticed anything, Quote: 410 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,620 "The necessary criminal investigation of the culprit or culprits only 411 00:26:31,620 --> 00:26:34,420 gain any political importance due to the media coverage and discussion, 412 00:26:34,420 --> 00:26:38,080 which then made it necessary to personally inform the minister." 413 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,910 This is how you describe the system of Thomas de Maizère. 414 00:26:41,910 --> 00:26:46,590 Fun Fact: The husband of Emily Haber is a diplomat, who was spied on 415 00:26:46,590 --> 00:26:52,360 in the context of the BND-Selectors scandal. 416 00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:56,310 Well, then there was a huge "Bundespressekonferenz" about this (press conference with deputies of the government) 417 00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:59,820 on Monday, after we published it, over one hour with a lot of 418 00:26:59,820 --> 00:27:04,230 questions. Here the Speaker for the BMI was like: "Well I talked to everyone, 419 00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:07,830 who had a relevant position, and nobody knew anything" right? 420 00:27:07,830 --> 00:27:13,110 That is a most brilliant rhetoric, in other words: obfuscation tactic. 421 00:27:13,110 --> 00:27:18,030 Later it became clear: At least after the 21th April the government knew 422 00:27:18,030 --> 00:27:21,420 the plans and the investigations and we assume, that 423 00:27:21,420 --> 00:27:23,700 they at that point they discussed strategies. 424 00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:26,850 But who took part, we don't know, because the chancellery does not 425 00:27:26,850 --> 00:27:30,320 take records of such important meetings. 426 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,340 But then the Green party questioned the ministers of the government 427 00:27:33,340 --> 00:27:36,850 one by one, whoms deputies had taken part and 428 00:27:36,850 --> 00:27:39,150 the different ministries had to answer, 429 00:27:39,150 --> 00:27:42,170 that there deputies had been there, so it was possible to tell, 430 00:27:42,170 --> 00:27:47,220 who had been there, but none wanted to take responsibility. 431 00:27:47,220 --> 00:27:52,660 In addition the Green party asked, if it was normal to talk about such 432 00:27:52,660 --> 00:27:56,520 procedures with foreseeable large, political meaning 433 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,610 without reports or taking any records, 434 00:27:58,610 --> 00:28:03,310 and the government was like: Well, yes that's normal, no panic! 435 00:28:03,310 --> 00:28:06,210 The ministry of justice knew already two months in advance 436 00:28:06,210 --> 00:28:09,560 including the minister, who declared after the media coverage then, 437 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,460 that this had to be ended now very fast. 438 00:28:12,460 --> 00:28:14,230 We just wonder why didn't he do that before? 439 00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:15,600 Well, I have to hurry! 440 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,700 Let's come to... 441 00:28:21,910 --> 00:28:24,630 -hu? Never happened before! 442 00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:27,780 Need a new Laptop!- 443 00:28:27,780 --> 00:28:29,510 What do we learn? Our requests: 444 00:28:29,510 --> 00:28:33,770 First off, we need a new definition of official secrets. 445 00:28:33,770 --> 00:28:37,240 At the moment the authorities decide for themself, what is a secret, and we think 446 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,060 that is wrong! We need a new definition of "Staatsgeheimnis", 447 00:28:41,060 --> 00:28:44,670 so that developments of history in the public interest are not 448 00:28:44,670 --> 00:28:48,790 secrets and are not covered by either §94 "Landesverrat", 449 00:28:48,790 --> 00:28:52,420 or §95 "Offenbarung von Staatsgeheimissen" (revealing of official secrets) 450 00:28:52,420 --> 00:28:55,100 *applause* That would help journalists, 451 00:28:55,100 --> 00:28:59,290 to be threatened by this sword of Damocles (A danger constantly hovering over you). 452 00:28:59,290 --> 00:29:04,480 We need a protection of whistle blowers act, that deserved that name! 453 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,160 Germany is a developing country, when it comes to that. 454 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:15,820 That can not be! yeayea, I'll hurry! 455 00:29:15,820 --> 00:29:20,750 Besides we were lucky, Andre and I are both professional journalists in our 456 00:29:20,750 --> 00:29:23,070 editorial office, but there are others, who write 457 00:29:23,070 --> 00:29:27,570 for us voluntarily. If they had published this story, 458 00:29:27,570 --> 00:29:30,340 they wouldn't have had the same rights we did, for example 459 00:29:30,340 --> 00:29:33,680 they had not right to remain silent, or better a court 460 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,130 had to clarify that, if they have, because 461 00:29:37,130 --> 00:29:41,830 The legal definition for freedom of the press talks about profession. 462 00:29:41,830 --> 00:29:46,800 We say: Freedom of the press has to apply for everyone, who submits to journalistic 463 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,080 standards and duties and work as a journalist and not just for those, 464 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,730 who do this for money! *huge applause* 465 00:29:54,730 --> 00:30:01,710 Also to insure the protection of the sources, 466 00:30:01,710 --> 00:30:05,510 the Telecommunications data retention has to go! There are many other reasons 467 00:30:05,510 --> 00:30:07,650 for that, but I say it now just from a journalistic perspective. 468 00:30:07,650 --> 00:30:10,220 *applause* And most importantly the new law against 469 00:30:10,220 --> 00:30:13,440 "Datenhelerei" has to go! And we will support a lawsuit against it! 470 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,830 We need to quit mass surveillance 471 00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:17,830 and to control the secret services! 472 00:30:17,830 --> 00:30:20,320 So the real Scandal, besides "Landesverrat" is, 473 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,090 that two years after the Snowden leaks 474 00:30:23,090 --> 00:30:26,900 this is seen as test for future cases, and the surveillance is increasing 475 00:30:26,900 --> 00:30:30,420 massively supported by the government! What we wanted to say: 476 00:30:30,420 --> 00:30:35,490 Never give up! We will continue, despite mass surveillance and so on. 477 00:30:35,490 --> 00:30:38,090 We were a little disappointed that the campaign did not last so long, 478 00:30:38,090 --> 00:30:40,950 we had still a lot of ideas, what we could do. 479 00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:45,780 We would be glad to receive more documents and as a Thanks for the investigations 480 00:30:45,780 --> 00:30:50,450 we leaked the BND-strategies for extending the net surveillance. 481 00:30:50,450 --> 00:30:57,450 You can read all on our page. *applause* 482 00:30:58,010 --> 00:31:02,990 And so, Thanks to all of you for your support! 483 00:31:02,990 --> 00:31:06,200 It helped a great deal to have so many supporters 484 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,490 in the civil society, in the media, in our communities 485 00:31:09,490 --> 00:31:13,340 else we would not have survived this. 486 00:31:13,340 --> 00:31:16,690 So, if you are in favour of our work, you can support us: 487 00:31:16,690 --> 00:31:21,290 netzpolitik.org/spenden or we have left over some 488 00:31:21,290 --> 00:31:29,140 very cool T-shirts and Hoodies and bags. There are somewhere... 489 00:31:29,140 --> 00:31:32,170 Where are they? A right! Here in front. There are stickers, too, 490 00:31:32,170 --> 00:31:35,620 featuring Hans-Georg Maaßen, else... *laughing* 491 00:31:35,620 --> 00:31:39,720 Thank you very much! Do more "Landesverrat" and have fun on the congress! 492 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:46,720 *applause* 493 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,400 *music*